Did anyone in Japan actually buy a Honda e?

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ZoeDave
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Post by ZoeDave »

Hello all,

I've just returned from Japan - my favourite holiday destination and one that the pandemic had prevented me from visiting for over 3 years. Spent 10 days travelling around Kyushu on the fantastic trains, before catching a flight to Tokyo for my last afternoon, as my airline changed the timings for my connection, which was a blessing as the connection out was a nightmare as I had to go through immigration, customs, change terminal, and my suitcase only made it the next day. It allowed me to see the current offerings at the museum of contemporary art (which is great, but I also recommend the Mori art museum if they aren't changing the exhibition), and do some last minute shopping at Daiso and Donki.

Even though I've never driven in Japan, seeing the cars is really interesting, and I doubt any other country has such a wide variety on the roads. Apart from Korean ones due to the long and complex history of the relationship between the two countries - I literally have never seen a Korean car in Japan. But in addition to the many Kei cars, I saw almost everything. All types of Japanese cars, some modified (jacked-up Jimny anyone?), a smattering of Mercs, Audis and BMWs, more than one Rolls-Royce and Ferrari, the new (and for the first time actually good-looking) Prius, less EVs than I had hoped but still some Leafs, a few MX-30s, and at least one example of the DS3-crossback E-tense and a BYD EV to boot. I even saw an admittedly cool-looking middle-aged guy with a goatee driving a matt-black Chevrolet SSR with the top down.

But the one car I did not see at all was the e. And I can't work out exactly why. I get that Kei cars take a lot of the small car market because of the tax and other benefits, but I still saw many Yaris and Honda Fits, and the MX-30 is comparable in price and range, but Mazda still seemed to manage to shift a few. Anyone know what happened?

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Verone
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Post by Verone »

There's always a misconception that Japan is ultra modern and everything is super duper futuristic there.

The e is in a weird bracket for the Japanese domestic market because as much as Japan grips new technology by the balls in some instances and produces a lot of cutting edge hardware, they're also fiercely traditional and hold onto outdated technologies for way too long before adopting anything new.

While mass transit is state of the art, the Japanese still absolutely love their ICE powered cars, and charging infrastructure still isn't great there from what I understand from speaking to friends who live there. Compare Japan to South Korea in this respect, and despite a comparatively huge population, Japan has a quarter of the rapid charging stations that South Korea does.

Working there, I was astonished how much of Japanese infrastructure still relied on incredibly old computer hardware. Stuff like dial up, fax machines, and outdated technology were commonplace well into the 21st century. Granted this was about fifteen years ago, but even still visiting and speaking to friends there, I can see that the culture hasn't changed.

When you consider all this, the problem with the e is it's far too large to qualify as a kei car, given that it's about 400mm too long and 200mm too wide to fit into the category, which means it doesn't qualify for certain inner city parking restrictions/permits either. Coupled with the fact it's it's also a short range city EV rather than an efficient ICE powered supermini, and it seems like it's more than likely got an identity crisis in Japan (as well as in most of the rest of the world it seems).

It's one of those cases where I think if they'd actually made a hybrid version of it based on the powertrain in the newer generation Jazz, the looks and tech probably would have made it a smash hit in Japan given how nuts they go over cute tech, especially when it has face pareidolia.

Of course, that defeats the entire purpose of the car, so I'm glad they didn't do it, but I can see why it hasn't taken off in Japan.

It's had far more (albeit limited) success in the UK and Germany, ironically. Numbers aren't 100% accurate, but are close enough to give an semi-accurate picture:

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ZoeDave
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Post by ZoeDave »

Thank you so much Verone,

I really appreciate all the detail, especially the sales data. While I was aware of a fair few of the points, you have managed to make far more sense of it than I would have!

Even so, I still find it difficult to understand just how low the sales have been in Japan. After all, it is made there (much cheaper shipping), the population is significantly higher than the UK or Germany, they typically have newer cars, and I'm not sure that any other country buys a higher percentage of domestically produced cars.

The greatest confusion I still have though is how I saw so many MX-30s, when I see it as very comparable to the e. It may be a little bigger, but apart from a longer boot, the space utilisation is worse, it doesn't look as good, range is similar and performance worse.
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

ZoeDave wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 5:06 pm The greatest confusion I still have though is how I saw so many MX-30s, when I see it as very comparable to the e. It may be a little bigger, but apart from a longer boot, the space utilisation is worse, it doesn't look as good, range is similar and performance worse.
I have no idea on the MX-30 - it review bombed pretty hard in most instances, and was basically billed as a shitty, gimped electric version of the CX-30.

I've seen a few of these on the road in Iceland too, and have no idea why people are buying them, they're absolute trash.
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londiniumperson
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Post by londiniumperson »

Verone wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:21 pm ...
I've seen a few of these on the road in Iceland too, and have no idea why people are buying them, they're absolute trash.
Is that your view after a test drive or just from 'journalists' opinion?
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

londiniumperson wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:43 pm Is that your view after a test drive or just from 'journalists' opinion?
That's my view after test driving one. The road noise was horrendous, and it felt like it was built from cardboard. It also rode super hard for a small SUV, which seems to be the angle they were going for. The rear suicide doors also sounded like shit when they were closed, and rattled a lot as if they were built to be super light with no sound deadening.

The MX-30, Zoe, Mini Electric and Honda e were the four I considered when I was thinking about a small EV. For a while I also considered the Fiat 500 but my partner is 6'5" and there's no way he'd be comfortable in it, plus I only had to look at one up close to see it wasn't for me.

The MX-30 was genuinely terrible all around, and an embarrassment to Mazda's rep in my opinion - it really felt like it was thrown together for sake of them being able to say they "developed" a small EV. It gave me the vibe like they'd tried to copy what Hyundai did with the first generation Kona electric by adapting the ICE car (which is a great car, a colleague has one but they're too big for what I was looking for), and just hideously failed at doing so.

The Zoe was just typical Renault, it felt like it was built cheap, with super cheap materials, but it actually drove pretty nice and was nippy when I tried it. If I was just looking for an electric shitbox to commute with, then I'd have probably seriously considered it.

The Mini Electric came in a really close second to the e for me, in the end it was the interior of the e, the way more responsive steering and generally just the look and feel of driving it, plus it looks so different to anything else on the road.

The Mini was great, really nicely finished and reasonably good to drive, but they just look like a bog standard mini for the best part and I wanted something that looked a bit different. The final thing that got me for the e was that while I've serviced, repaired, built and driven cars from all over the world, I've only ever owned Japanese cars, so I decided to stick with it.

The only thing that gets me down a little bit about the e is its lack of range, but to be honest the charging infrastructure here is fantastic, and electricity is mega cheap, so it's not really a deciding factor. I can charge for free at work, and it's going to cost the equivalent of about £9 to charge it at home on a 22kw wall box in my apartment building's basement parking, with a percentage of that going back into the house fund anyway. Rapid chargers here are the equivalent of about £15 or so if I want to use them too, and with one specific energy company (ON) if I rapid charge with them once a month, I get 20% off my home electricity as well.

So yeah, there was a lot to consider, and I wouldn't have minded the Mazda if it didn't sound and drive like a bag of shit. It's a shame, because it's not really that bad looking, I quite like Mazda's more recent design language.
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ZoeDave
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Post by ZoeDave »

That's really interesting, as my shortlist was basically the same, apart from not wanting another Zoe. I do have to say that my Zoe was built with both the care and ruggedness of a tractor - quality control wasn't great, but it was screwed together well.

I test drove the other three and the mini had all the great qualities of the brand, but in the height of the chip shortage they deleted the upgraded HK audio, and being an adapted ICE car, and one that is quite old wasn't great.

The impression I got from the Mazda was the complete opposite. I didn't like the SUV look, the rear seats or the visibility, but thought the interior was absolutely fantastic, even on par with the German brands.
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

ZoeDave wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:41 pm That's really interesting, as my shortlist was basically the same, apart from not wanting another Zoe. I do have to say that my Zoe was built with both the care and ruggedness of a tractor - quality control wasn't great, but it was screwed together well.

I test drove the other three and the mini had all the great qualities of the brand, but in the height of the chip shortage they deleted the upgraded HK audio, and being an adapted ICE car, and one that is quite old wasn't great.

The impression I got from the Mazda was the complete opposite. I didn't like the SUV look, the rear seats or the visibility, but thought the interior was absolutely fantastic, even on par with the German brands.


Yeah, I didn't have a problem with how the Zoe was put together, more the quality of the materials that were used in it. For the Mini, I 100% agree. It basically just felt like a bog standard Mini that made less noise and didn't go as far.

The Mazda just didn't do it for me haha.
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londiniumperson
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Post by londiniumperson »

I agree with @ZoeDave in that I was very impressed when I drove the MX-30 at Fully Charged last year.
I'd had my Honda for about 2 years by then and I wasn't planning on changing but I wanted to see what the Mazda was like. I found the road noise the same as the Honda, which in my opinion is loud for an EV and the ride was very compliant, more so than the Honda which I suspect was due to the Mazda being a higher vehicle. As for build quality it was on a par with the Honda, no rattles and the rear doors felt very solid. Overall I felt it was a nice car with a few unusual features (e.g. cork trim), the only thing that I didn't like was that it was bordering on an SUV and if I was worried about rear passengers (and I'm not) they have limited space but no worse than the Honda & the rear windows are small.

I have a question, is it Iceland where you consider £9 to charge at home as mega cheap?
I'm in the UK and I consider £9 very expensive for a full home charge, even now it would only cost me £6 at home and up until the end of last year it would have cost £1.38

As for the Mini & Zoe, we all seem to have similar opinions.
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Verone
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Post by Verone »

londiniumperson wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:05 pm I have a question, is it Iceland where you consider £9 to charge at home as mega cheap?
I'm in the UK and I consider £9 very expensive for a full home charge, even now it would only cost me £6 at home and up until the end of last year it would have cost £1.38
Yep, that'll be Iceland! I grew up in the UK, but I've been over here for 10 years now.

The actual electricity for the charge costs next to nothing - for reference my monthly electricity bill for my apartment is about £30, which includes having two 1200W PCs and a 1000W server running 24/7, as well as an electric oven or slow cooker running every other day.

If I had my own wall box connected to my own electricity meter at home, it would cost me about two quid to charge the car, but the charging points in my building are owned by a company that leases them to our apartment building, so the company, and the apartment building both have service fees on the charging.

Public charging points are the same - the electricity costs next to nothing, but there are fees charged based on how long your occupy the charger, with the first x number of minutes free, depending on how fast the charger is that you're using. I think this is the same in the UK if I'm not mistaken, but the margins are a lot larger in Iceland from what it seems.

Personally, I don't mind the service fees, because the money charged by the two companies I'll be using the most (Ísorka and ON) is being very visibly funneled directly back into the charging infrastructure, as there's a lot of upgrades and new stations being added to their networks constantly. There are two 150kW CCS chargers that have just sprung up within walking distance of my building in the last month or so for instance.

I also don't mind the service fees at home, because half goes to Ísorka, and half goes to our house fund for building maintenance and cleaning. With ON, if I use their public chargers, I'll get 20% off my home power bills too, as they're my electricity provider.

I am of course also comparing to the cost of fuel, where I'd pay about £105 to fill my old petrol powered beater (an old, thirsty as fuck Subaru) and get about 450km out of a tank, so overall it's a massive reduction in cost.

Also, with general cost of living over here, average salaries are substantially higher than the UK, so that also warps the comparison a bit too. £9 will barely buy you a shitty cheeseburger over here.
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