Charge to 80% or 100%?

[Isotope Toast]

@Fortunatus: you're just guesssing.

As a technical writer specializing in instruction manuals, the above two sentences would never make it to print. They do nothing to inform the user or help them make a decision and are chock full of generalizations.

As a Honda e owner, I want (need) to know, exactly what the consequences of my actions towards charging entail. Honda should have, among other things, done a risk assessment analysis of their products.
For example, they take a battery, charge it to 100%, drain it, and repeat this...all the while compiling data on what happens to the battery in this scenario over time. Did they not do this? Do not have this info? Do they not want to release it?

To tell customers "in some instances" without telling us what those instances are, is absurd. The same goes for "Generally", "Most", "most", "in some instances", "may".

Nah nah nah nah nah...tell me, Honda, when should I charge to less than 100% to preserve battery health? 1x a Week? Every 4th time charging?

And if "it may be worth charging to less than 100% to preserve battery health", why does my Honda e Owners Manual tell me to charge the car to 100% every single time!

Bah!

[FDAD]

And if "it may be worth charging to less than 100% to preserve battery health", why does my Honda e Owners Manual tell me to charge the car to 100% every single time!

And mind you.. it does so without saying it has to be AC or DC to 100%.

[Peter-E]

The Plug Life Television youtube channel (hosted by electrochemist Euan McTurk) has some excellent informative videos on all things EV, charging, etc..
Regarding this thread, the following video might be of interest:

[5thcivic]

There are just far too many variables in charge/discharge rates, let alone the important temperature to be so absolutely specific. You have to trust the Honda engineers know what they are doing for the advertsied lifetime of the battery. After all they installed an expenive heating/cooling system when some other manufacturers don't even bother. They put the limiter there for a reason, we know li-ion can last longer under certain charge conditions, it does not necessarily mean the battery guarantee is invalid if you don't use it.

[Isotope Toast]

@ Peter-E: very interesting, thanks for posting!

[Trykpaa]

We charge to 100% at the moment. Battery degradation is a chemical process speeded up by heat. During summer we reduce charging limit to 80 or 90% to take ekstra care of the battery.

[ChesterUK]

This post has been running for a while! It's great to see it resurrected though and I think we understand a lot more than we did 3 years ago. We have been charging to 100% using a single phase Zappi 2 fast charger, and I think we've only rapid charged 5 times. 2 or 3 of those were top-ups. We haven't noticed a dip in range yet, but this might only mean that we haven't 'eaten' into the battery's spare/reserve capacity yet. I'm going to look for iPhone or Windows based OBD solutions to get State Of Health information directly from the battery's BMS, and that's mainly because I am now looking at getting into my own EV, in addition to my wife's Honda e, and I don't believe most dealers have a clue what SoH is. This is the only way to know what's going on for sure. The car's coming up for 23'000 miles now. We're keeping it until a more interesting compact car becomes available, and a recent concept from Mazda indicates a possibility in a few year's time. We're in no rush.

If anyone knows of any BMS/SoH tools, reviews, or can make a recommendation, I'd love to hear about them. Thanks in Honda e Advance!

[MaXPainT]

You have to trust the Honda engineers know what they are doing for the advertsied lifetime of the battery. After all they installed an expenive heating/cooling system when some other manufacturers don't even bother. They put the limiter there for a reason, we know li-ion can last longer under certain charge conditions, it does not necessarily mean the battery guarantee is invalid if you don't use it.

I would not be so sure about the Honda engineers part. As I see it, Honda has made a concept car and as with any concept car, the team behind it got a green light to all their wild ideas. The concept was extremely successful and even won an award for its design. So the concept or the marketing team convinced the conservative Honda management that they should let this car exist as a production model. Honda then promptly converts the concept to a production model using off-the-shelf solutions for the EV part of it and puts it on the market. The car doesn't sell volumes so the conservative management uses it to prove the point that they were right and should not have agreed to produce it in the first place.

This hypothesis explains why Honda was almost not willing to sell the E, why there were no attempts to improve sales with a revised model, and why the new Honda EVs are nothing like the E. I think that the real engineers of Honda, the A team are only now learning how to deal with an EV powertrain, therefore, it takes ages for Honda to produce new models. What we know for sure is that lithium batteries like it best when charged halfway, therefore, if one can fit it into their lifestyle, I would recommend charging up to 80% and avoiding discharging below 40% regardless of what the manual says. I think I've seen something about oil change intervals in the manual of my E so I don't trust it that much

[5thcivic]

The E did not sell because of the range and the price, simple as that. Range is the one thing everyone talks about in electric cars, the E is a second, urban car, most cannot use it as an only car. The price was for a truckload of electronics and features which cheaper alternatives did not have. You bought it if you could afford it, charge easily at home within your useage miles and liked the driving pleasure. It was never a mass market car at that price. The electric Mini failed for the same range issues.

[londiniumperson]

I would not be so sure about the Honda engineers part. As I see it, Honda has made a concept car and as with any concept car, the team behind it got a green light to all their wild ideas. The concept was extremely successful and even won an award for its design. So the concept or the marketing team convinced the conservative Honda management that they should let this car exist as a production model. Honda then promptly converts the concept to a production model using off-the-shelf solutions for the EV part of it and puts it on the market. The car doesn't sell volumes so the conservative management uses it to prove the point that they were right and should not have agreed to produce it in the first place.

Sorry but this is incorrect, Honda started with the production car and then later created the concept. Unusual maybe but the reality in the case of the Honda e.

This hypothesis explains why Honda was almost not willing to sell the E, why there were no attempts to improve sales with a revised model, and why the new Honda EVs are nothing like the E. I think that the real engineers of Honda, the A team are only now learning how to deal with an EV powertrain, therefore, it takes ages for Honda to produce new models. What we know for sure is that lithium batteries like it best when charged halfway, therefore, if one can fit it into their lifestyle, I would recommend charging up to 80% and avoiding discharging below 40% regardless of what the manual says. I think I've seen something about oil change intervals in the manual of my E so I don't trust it that much

It's not surprising that you've seen mention of oil change intervals in the manual of the Honda e because like all EV's there is actually a requirement to change the oil at the specified mileages.